Репосты Жмудя - Транспорт

Forwarded from Блокнот Жмудя Chat

Про размещение рабочих мест в США эпохи streetcar suburbs и переходных от них, т.е. Belle Epoque и до Великой Депрессии (+ что-то маленько строили в 30-е - 40-е по тем же принципам, видимо по старым проектам), отсюда:

A reason streetcar suburbs worked is because they connected the residential suburban areas with downtown. Yes businesses grew along the streetcar lines, but they were usually for serving those local areas almost exclusively. All the major jobs, shopping, and service activities happened downtown, while the businesses along the streetcar lines were secondary convenience type businesses, like the local restaurant, butcher, convenience store, etc.

Such a pattern is similar to what you see along rapid transit lines and in a slightly more nodal form in commuter rail. The neighborhoods along the lines or around the stations are primarily residential with some local convenience type businesses, but the main economic engine is the big city downtown that all the routes converge at. This means you can have an effective transit system that's entirely radial, which is very easy to build, though unfortunately it's very unbalanced as far as time-of-day and directional running. The point is, since everyone for the most part is going to and from downtown, you don't need to worry about suburb-to-suburb trips because few people have any reason to make those sorts of trips.

А теперь всё иначе:

In today's paradigm however, downtown is usually just one of many employment centers, and may not even be the single largest one anymore. At the very least, even if still dominant, there's so many jobs dispersed throughout the rest of the metro area, that to properly serve them with transit you need a comprehensive net, more of a spider web than a radial arrangement.

Этот важнейший кусок автопереведу:

Однако в современной парадигме центр города обычно является лишь одним из множества центров занятости, и, возможно, даже не самым крупным. Как минимум, даже если он по-прежнему доминирует, в остальной части агломерации разбросано так много рабочих мест, что для их полноценного обслуживания транспортом необходима разветвлённая сеть, скорее паутина, чем радиальная схема.

В пример приводится Чикаго:

Chicago is a perfect example of a city with a radial transit network, at least when looking at the 'L' and Metra. The bus system is much more gridded within the city itself though. Anyway, that radial network is great if you're living in the suburbs (or residential neighborhoods within the city) and commuting to downtown, but nothing else. It's very hard to get decent transit ridership to suburban offices even if they're near transit lines because they can only effectively pull people from the particular route they're on. Anyone else from the rest of the system will have to take an "in and out" route through downtown which can easily quadruple the time it takes. Plus with little major shopping going on downtown but in suburban malls and strip centers, there's even fewer people using the radial transit network that would have in the past.

A statistic that would be worth knowing is just how effective particular transit routes are at capturing the rides they actually serve. If you look at all of Chicagoland, transit [имеется в виду ОТ] ridership is pretty bad, in part because of massive job sprawl and suburb-to-suburb commuting. People can't take transit that doesn't go where they need to go, obviously. But I bet if you could find the transit ridership for suburb-to-downtown commuting it would be a much higher percentage.

Т.е. огромное количество рабочих мест расположено не в центре, а ездить на ОТ можно только через центр (в разы дольше). Проблема кстати ОЧЕНЬ актуальная для Москвы, особенно до середины 2010-х - потом появились МЦК, БКЛ, МЦД, обычный ОТ стал куда более вменяемым, и поездки с одной окраины на другую не на личном транспорте стали куда проще.

Это то, что люди редко учитывают... почему-то обычно считают, что все работают в центре... я вот в ЦАО Москвы ни разу даже не собеседовался (!), ЕМНИП -- что ни офис, то где-то подальше.

www.tgoop.com/shm512_shared_transit/4287

16 viewsOct 16 at 00:34

Про размещение рабочих мест в США эпохи streetcar suburbs и переходных от них, т.е. Belle Epoque и до Великой Депрессии (+ что-то маленько строили в 30-е - 40-е по тем же принципам, видимо по старым проектам), отсюда:

A reason streetcar suburbs worked is because they connected the residential suburban areas with downtown. Yes businesses grew along the streetcar lines, but they were usually for serving those local areas almost exclusively. All the major jobs, shopping, and service activities happened downtown, while the businesses along the streetcar lines were secondary convenience type businesses, like the local restaurant, butcher, convenience store, etc.

Such a pattern is similar to what you see along rapid transit lines and in a slightly more nodal form in commuter rail. The neighborhoods along the lines or around the stations are primarily residential with some local convenience type businesses, but the main economic engine is the big city downtown that all the routes converge at. This means you can have an effective transit system that's entirely radial, which is very easy to build, though unfortunately it's very unbalanced as far as time-of-day and directional running. The point is, since everyone for the most part is going to and from downtown, you don't need to worry about suburb-to-suburb trips because few people have any reason to make those sorts of trips.

In today's paradigm however, downtown is usually just one of many employment centers, and may not even be the single largest one anymore. At the very least, even if still dominant, there's so many jobs dispersed throughout the rest of the metro area, that to properly serve them with transit you need a comprehensive net, more of a spider web than a radial arrangement.

Однако в современной парадигме центр города обычно является лишь одним из множества центров занятости, и, возможно, даже не самым крупным. Как минимум, даже если он по-прежнему доминирует, в остальной части агломерации разбросано так много рабочих мест, что для их полноценного обслуживания транспортом необходима разветвлённая сеть, скорее паутина, чем радиальная схема.

Chicago is a perfect example of a city with a radial transit network, at least when looking at the 'L' and Metra. The bus system is much more gridded within the city itself though. Anyway, that radial network is great if you're living in the suburbs (or residential neighborhoods within the city) and commuting to downtown, but nothing else. It's very hard to get decent transit ridership to suburban offices even if they're near transit lines because they can only effectively pull people from the particular route they're on. Anyone else from the rest of the system will have to take an "in and out" route through downtown which can easily quadruple the time it takes. Plus with little major shopping going on downtown but in suburban malls and strip centers, there's even fewer people using the radial transit network that would have in the past.

A statistic that would be worth knowing is just how effective particular transit routes are at capturing the rides they actually serve. If you look at all of Chicagoland, transit [имеется в виду ОТ] ridership is pretty bad, in part because of massive job sprawl and suburb-to-suburb commuting. People can't take transit that doesn't go where they need to go, obviously. But I bet if you could find the transit ridership for suburb-to-downtown commuting it would be a much higher percentage.

BY Репосты Жмудя - Транспорт